All Czechs and Slovaks are acquainted with socialized health care from their birth country. Obama’s bill wants just that, except it is extremely divisive. Strong majority of Americans want health care reform, they want cheaper insurance policies, lower co pays and deductibles. But the majority of them do not want Obama’s reform. It will put this country billions of dollars in debt and it also happens to be unconstitutional.
What do you think?
CZ: Vsichni mame z nasi rodne zeme zkusenosti ze socialnim zravotnim pojistenim. Obama se snazi udelat neco podobneho, akorat ze jeho zakony zadluzi Ameriku nekolika desitkami bilionu dolaru a to, ze bude vlada nutit Americany, aby si poridili zdravotni pojisteni je protikonstitucni.
Co si o tom myslite vy?
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Wow, those are some sweeping statements. Who has ruled already that it’s unconstitutional? He just signed the bill last week. Don’t the Congressional Budget Office figures show something completely different – I thought they showed it would decrease America’s deficit, especially in the second decade of enactment. I welcome greater numbers of people to America’s insurance pools. It helps spread the costs among more people. In my home state of Iowa, for example, there isn’t real competition in health care because one company has 71% of the market. Opening up insurance to more competition and a larger pool of people to draw from can only be a great thing. I’m also personally grateful that it will now be illegal to not insure pre-existing conditions. Otherwise how does anyone ever change a job?
There are some good and bad things about it. One good thing as Karen mentions, is that people with pre-existing conditions won’t be denied insurance (although I’m sure it will be expensive).
A bad thing is that a lot of people will be required to buy insurance or face a tax penalty. In my state in the US we have had a similar system for a while, and there are people who pay the penalty because they can’t afford the insurance – they pay taxes but are low-income for their situation and/or self-employed. So they have less money than before and still no insurance.
This is a step in the right direction, although to make it more “palatable” to the conservative mainstream, the appropriate goal of a uniformn, single payer, natonal health care model got tremendously watered down to produce this mongrel model. Ironically, it didn’t accomplish that, and in fact many of the very things that were put in as a sop to those ——-ers, are the things they are targeting for their scare tactics and bogus “unconstitutional” claims. Please don’t propagate the myth that “the majority are against it, and that it will put us into any more debt than Bush’s ill-advised military mis-adventures, or that it’s unconstitutional.”
Have any of you research the systems in Europe? This has been tried and failed in many countries. It will put us in more debt, it will not work and it will only hurt majority and even many that are not insured right now. This will completely kill competition in a long run and the rates will not go down. You will pay it in other ways. Your children and grandchildren will pay for it in other ways. Some of this bill may look great on paper but so did communism. Great idea, but look what it did once implemented. Did not work, could not work. Well, I guess, except China, but that is another story. People wake up. Please wake up before it is toooooo late. Many immigrants from Europe has seen all this coming ten, fifteen years ago. Nobody listened, nobody believed America could destroy itself this way. Please wake up before it is to late. America is the land of FREE. Not free for ALL but freedom to be successful, to be anything you want to be, to work as much or as little for what you want to accomplish. Are we so far behind and gone that all people want to BE is dependent on government???? To be free to take away from other people? What gives you the right?
So Lenka, when you lose your health insurance because you get sick will you go back to Czech to get help? Or you will stay here – sick, without job and healthcare and enjoy your freedom of being poor? I know Americans who have pre-existing conditions and move to Europe so they can get treatments. Not everybody is born bright, healthy and wealthy .. So a child with congenital disorder should just die? Isn’t the US wars costing much more?
I guess if you are ready to wait for hours in doctors office, for months to years for surgery and possibly end up with something “forgotten” inside of you (by the way no law suits you cannot do that you will get a small amount and of course they will take the instrument out)because you will be worked on by someone who in current system wouldn’t be able to even look at surgical instruments then yes this is a great move. By the way Czech and European health systems are NOT working so why are we trying so hard to have socialized health care. Leave this to individual states.
The system needs to be changed, I agree with that. But this health care reform is not the change you want. It’s just another CHANGE to destroy this country. Why on earth are we inserting war into this discussion and the Bush’s ill willed spending. This has nothing to do with past administrations. This is what it is. A really bad idea that was shoved down our throats without any support. You do it or else. And what does being born bright, healthy and wealthy mean anyway? My husband and I work hard for our money, we make right decisions for our family and for our future. Nobody in this country goes without health care, you get treated no matter what. And I hate to see that as you call it poor “poor” people get the same health care I do without having to pay for it and I have to cough up money before I leave the hospital. What is fair about that. Change the system. Don’t change who pays for it and how. Ladi, how me being sick turns into being sick, without job and health care and enjoying my freedom of being poor. What the heck. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Tom, if it is constitutional, how come there are !3(!!) states that are currently suing the government that it is UNconstitutional???? (http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/03/23/1127721/otter-idaho-joins-with-other-states.html)
The beauty of this country is that the government cannot make you to purchase anything…until now.
I am with you Lenka and Lucka!!
My government forces me to purchase car and home insurance already.
Yes, but driving a car or buying a home is a choice. But an individual does not have a choice whether he is alive or not. Under Obama’s bill if you are alive you HAVE to buy an insurance.
This may not be correct in ALL states. But home insurance is not mandated by state or federal government. It is on the other hand mandated by most mortgage companies if you do not pay cash for your house or is not paid off. Mortgage company is a private business. Therefore, the government does not force you to purchase home insurance policy.
Car insurance is a different story too. You are using public roads that are owned by the government – local, state or federal. It is your choice to use such roads and if you choose to do so, you are obligated to follow the rules and regulations. You can choose not to use such roads or choose not to own a car. There is no requirement by government to have auto insurance if you are using your vehicle on your private property only. Again, if you are financing your vehicle, the lender will ask you to carry insurance with minimum deductible to protect themselves. But again, this is a private company. I agree with Tanja, there are choices you can make when it come to auto and home insurance. However, there is not choice in the health care .
I would like to ask those who oppose the new health care bill, if you don’t believe in a single payer system where the entire country shares the burden, and you don’t believe in requiring others to buy insurance, how would those with insurance continue to afford it? In the past, all of those uncovered costs by people without insurance were shifted to your health care bills because people with insurance had the deepest pockets. Aren’t you tired of sharing that burden alone? Do you think you can continue to have 20-30% increases in your premiums yearly? Don’t you want that burden spread over more people so that you can afford the insurance you have? This bill is designed to protect you!
Already America is spending 16% of GDP on health care and it was estimated to go up to 31% within ten years without change. Every year, American spends more than other countries on health care (France only spends 11% of GDP and covers everyone) is another year America becomes less competitive. All of those countries are investing that difference of 6% in something more productive than us, and it’s compounding. Change is hard. In the end, it’s all about being competitive as a nation.
I was watching the whole discussion in TV, news and spoken with some native Americans I have contact with. It is very surprising to me, how the whole discussion gets heated quickly and it come to me, that a lot of people use word “freedom” for “me” and “communism” for “us”, totally skipping the principle of “helping people in need” we should share from common Christian culture background. I am myself atheist and count myself for a conservative person, but I understand that in the society I live in, exist people who cannot make or cannot afford to make their choice. My own success–or living American Dream–however would not exists without society I am part of, thus I do have moral obligation to help those less fortunate. It is similar problem I see with, for example, moving production abroad to cheap labor, basically denying the company moral responsibility for society it is part of. Ask some older people who lived through after-war times about this. Lenka above points out that EU systems are going down the drain and are generally bad. That is pretty funny statement considering how USA are basically sold out country living out of debts themselves with money without any value. Both USA and Europe have one common and it is a democracy system, which will eventually fall apart due to broken financing…
The real question here is -how the HELL are we going to pay for this gigantic, overbearing, overreaching bill? People, our deficit is 1.6 trillion dollars. Obama QUADRUPLED what Bush spent in ’08. Even if if we get our asses taxed off-which we will- it will be impossible to pay this down.
Conservative’s biggest complaint about Bush was the spending but they were warned that a Democrat in office would far surpass Bush. Lo and behold!
NOBODY says there should NOT be any healthcare reform. It’s just people that are sensible know this is not the way to solve it- spend spend spend!!!
How about tort reform? How about interstate competition with insurance companies?
This bill is a disaster waiting to happen.
Why do rich people from Canada come here for treatment?
Petr V. well said – there is not enough holistic thinking in America about what is best for society as a whole.
Keith, I so completely agree with you about interstate competition among insurance companies. I don’t know where you get your numbers though. Did you have an opportunity to watch the 1.5 hour question time between Obama and the House Republicans (incredibly good use of time – very instructive), tort reform was estimated to save America $5 billion. $5 billion is a lot of money, but in the $900 billion scope of this bill, it’s peanuts. Also, where does the number that Obama spent four times more than Bush come from? Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has costed out the Iraq/Afghan wars as costing the American people $3 trillion. None of that was paid for – indeed, it wasn’t even put in the regular budget but instead passed as a “supplemental.” The prescription drug bill Bush passed, also without any sort of funding mechanism, costs $750 billion. What I respect about Obama’s health care reform is that it includes a mechanism to pay for it.
This health care reform is about a huge expansion of federal government and higher taxes for millions of Americans. In order to keep and strengthen U.S. health care system Americans should have the right to keep their existing doctor, their current coverage, and the right to make their own health care decisions. One size-fits all government would result in loosing this freedom and poor health care system. Yes, it does start to remind a communist health care system. Is that scary or what?
I love it how the Czech commentators are all against this reform :))) Trust us – the ‘old bones’ – who went through it all 😉
Even if I ddid not vote for Obama and still I disapprove almost everything he does, it is not a bad thing, that he tries to fix US healthcare insurance, which is completely messed up and unfair.
Of course, there are many bad things that can happen, but if we not try, we will never get the healthcare mess corrected. Of course, socialized hellcare may also mean “helping” people to die at a certain age if they will not be useful for our society. “Usefulness” of people could be judged by a special commitee made up of people leaning to the left more than we would like. I will tell you one secret though, if you will lean to te same side as the commitee, you may live many years after your “expiration” 🙂
I think it is good that no one will be denied coverage even if he/she has pre-existing conditions.
Of course, it will be expensive, but again, there will be some options to make it cheaper:
* to finish those people off, it is very easy to do
* to invest in profylactic measures, educate people
how to live a healthy livestyle and then we will be left only with small amount of people, to whom we can afford to help. Don’t forget, today you are healthy, tomorrow become ill, get fired , change job and the pre-existing condition will suck live out of you, because of those blood suckers-insurance companies.
Some of my most memorable experiences in Czechistan were with the healthcare system. One of my favorites was when the doctor was afraid he would get hassled by the federal health system because I had a cizinec’s rodný číslo. Therefore he wrote my prescription to the babička who had left his office before I came in, and then he made sure I knew how to tell the pharmacist, “Paní Snědldítětikašiová leží a já jsem tu pro ni.”
Another time I had to get stitches in one of my hands, and everyone connected to the hospital (and my town was half hospitals!) claimed the emergency doctor was a drunk and that I shouldn’t let him work on me. Because I was a local “celebrity”, I was ushered past the emergency department and to another part of the hospital, where I was treated by a surgeon. Everyone who was not a valutový cizinec with friends in the right places had to stay downstairs and get treated by the alleged drunk (who I personally don’t think was drunk).
That same day, I came into the hospital with blood gushing through my fingers and all down my arms, and the first thing the nurse did was yell at me for not having my ID with me.
Sometimes so many nurses and doctors at the hospital in the neighboring town had quit their jobs to make better money selling shoes or tending bar that the hospital would cancel all surgery and transfer it to our town, where nurses would be brought out of retirement to assist in surgery.
The weirdest thing was finding out that the pet store clerk, the bar tender or the financial advisor used to be a doctor or a nurse but couldn’t make enough money in the medical profession to support a family.
This is what’s probably coming to America.
Jamie, you as an American could get healthcare in some of the private medical institutions operating in CR.
You should not compare US with “Czechistan”, you should compare it with UK or Canada…
Czech Republic is still suffering mental wounds from communist times, it will take time to improve it.
Simply all people infected by mental illnesses during communism have to die first, before it gets better.
I am lucky enough to be infected only 50%, so my passing away some day will not improve the situation too much 🙂
Karen- Washington post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.html and here http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
Jamie- I was hoping you would show up on this one.
Thank you for sharing these budget projections. At the Obama/House Republicans conclave, Obama said “I take responsibility for one trillion of our deficit to date.” I do consider the CBO credible and I appreciate that there are GREAT citizens like all of you who care enough and watch carefully enough to make politicians keep it honest. What is that saying? We get the government we as citizens deserve. Thank you for keeping an eye on ours!
Make politicians keep it honest eh? haha! Check this out:
http://www.behindthekit.com/2010/04/10/say-it-aint-so-o/
Karen, thank you for all your insightful comments.
Děkuji mockrát.
You’re welcome 🙂
Tanja, I’m not surprised that those familiar with the “free” health care are so strongly against it. I am one of those. A year ago, I liked what Charles Krauthammer wrote on this subject here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080602933.html
Obamacare will not improve anything, and in the end it will push good people out of the system, and the bad people in (to put it in very crude terms).