Do you have a problem finding a good American friend? A lot of my Czech girlfriends do. Although they have tried, they continue being unsuccessful in their quest. They say that American women they meet are too shallow, hence it is difficult to get them to talk about something real and deeper in nature..
I myself have had a good luck of finding good girlfriends that are American. It took a while (especially the beginnings were rough when one girl thought I was a lesbian because I was ‘too friendly’) but the stagnant period was well worth it. I hate superficial talk and so do they. Of course, we don’t get deep and philosophical every time we get together but if there is a need we can become a couple of Platos ;).
My husband always blames the superficiality on the area we live in. California is where superficiality flourishes like nowhere else. People come here from all over the world to become famous, hoping that popularity will bring them happiness (which of course it doesn’t).
I contribute my luck to the fact that I found my friends mostly through church. Christianity gives you a dose of reality about what is really important in life and what is not. Sure you find some fakes there that have done nothing wrong – ever – and judge just about anything that breathes. But most of the time you find good, down-t0-earth people that shy away from shallowness.
So my personal recipe to find good friendships in America is to find them at church or move far, far away from California to some gloomier places like Seattle where the rain forces people to stay at home and reflect on their life, therefore perfecting their art of becoming Platos.
What’s your recipe to a good American friendship?
CZ: Take mate problem najit si dobreho americkeho kamarada/kamardku? Nebojte se, nejste sami. Hodne mych ceskych kamaradek si stezuje na to same. Zkousely to a zkousely, ale po kazde se jim postestilo jen povrchni, ‘nudne’ konverzace.
Ja osobne si stezovat nemuzu, protoze dobre americke kamaradky mam. Trvalo nejaky ten patek si je najit (v dobe krusnych zacatku me dokonce jedna holka rekla, ze si myslela, ze jsem lesba, protoze jsem k ni byla moc kamaradska), ale trpelivost mi prinesla ruze. Nesnasim povrchnost a me americke kamaradky jakbysmet. Samozrejme, ze nemame intelektualni diskuze pokazde, kdyz se sejdeme, ale jestli je potreba, neni pro nas problem se na chvili promenit v par Aristotelu ;).
Muj manzel vini tento nedostatek lidskeho charkteru na to, kde zijeme. V Kalifornii povrchnost prospiva, jako nikde jinde. Lide sem prijizdeji ze vsech zakouti sveta, jen aby se stali slavnymi, bohatymi a ‘stastnymi’.
Ja osobne prisuzuji me stesti k tomu, ze jsem sve americke kamarady nasla z vetsiny skrz nas kostel. Krestanstvi vam da davku reality a take vam oprasi od prachu hodnoty, ktere jsou v zivote opravdu ty dulezite. Samozrejme, ze natrefite na lidi (tzv. ‘church ladies’), kteri odsuzuji, cokoliv co se pred nimi jen mihne, ale vetsinou jsou to dobri, strizlivi lide.
Tudiz muj osobni recept na to, jak ziskat dobre americke kamarady je najit si je nekde v dobrem kostele nebo se odstehovat co nejdal od Kalifornie jak jen muzete, treba do Seattlu, kde skoro porad prsi. Dest tam lidi prinuti, aby zustali doma a premysleli o sobe a o svem zivote. No proste se z nich stanou dalsi Aristotelove.
Jaky je vas recept na americka kamaradstvi?
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My hubby is Czech and I am Italian/American. We are very deep. Though I know what you mean when it comes to American women; they are shallow everywhere not just California. I was hoping to move to somewhere like Seattle just to reflect and have those more family moments and hoped people would be nicer their then in Texas. Anywhere but TEXAS!
I thought it weas just me who thought this way about American women! I was born and raised in the US, but after meeting some women in the Czech Republic I have noticed that Czech women are much better at keeping conversation flowing, way more friendly, curious, and rarely “nafoukaně” like so many women in this country are.
We lived in Texas for over 3 years. I met the nicest people there. My very good friend still lives there and we are still in touch after so many years living in Nor-Cal.
What part of Texas did you live in Jenne?
for Jenne – have you guys heard about this group? http://www.meetup.com/czechs-slovaks/ – a lot of nice young people from cz/sk who meet quite regularly, it is in DFW like you. I was looking at your blogs and you have some awesome recepieces there !
Brian, AND we can cook really well !!! 😉 Surely those deficiencies in the Czech women’s personality have to be hidden somewhere ;))
There are no shallow people, although there are people who never think about their own depths….
In my experience, “my Americans” are usually just really busy. Women of my age tend to have kids (don’t people get married somewhat earlier here?) and a full time job, so not much time to socialize. I usually find myself with internationals, there’s so many of them around any larger university.
I wonder is the church is more of a factor than American versus non-American, though. In my observation, any place of worship is an excellent place to meet people, especially if you move to a new area. An you have something in common. That said, I am an atheist. I wish that was not treated like a disease in the US, especially some middle American states.
Zuzana, same here, an atheist, which so unpopular, especially here in Texas! But, I have to say, people in Texas are very nice, not sure where Jenne found the bad ones. I had problem finding friends, where do you find them if you don’t go to church, don’t have kids that go to school (or none at all) and work in a very small company and industry full of men? I have a few American friends, we don’t discus Plato (who does ever anyway) but we can talk about pretty much anything. With that said, I found best friends among the Czechs and Slovaks I met through the group that Pavlina (ahoj Pavli!) mentioned (I started it with that goal). I don’t think that the main problem is that American women are generally shallow, I just think they don’t open up until they know you better and until you were friends longer. Maybe for Czechs/Slovaks friendship means to be really close and in the US it is not the closeness that is the main thing. I just think it depends on the level of friendship, even in Czech you are not best friends with everyone. I know I never was.
A little story here: Even my own husband is all about ‘supperfitial talks’ and most men are with their wives. However, I have to take stand and tell him how important it is for us to talk about special things. Etc…He’s improved!…:) I find that not only ‘American’ (I’d say North American), could be chinese, even korean, I find that me talking that ‘first step’ always brings them that hidden emotion alive.
I have more American guy friends than girl friends. I think they can take my honesty much better than girls and I can have political and philosophical conversation with them easier than with girls (and that includes my church friends). I think we Czechs understand that with real friendship comes commitment of time and most Americans are not willing to give it. So sometimes even though I might really like somebody and it’s mutual, unless we try really hard getting regularly together, it will lead nowhere. My best girlfriends here are Czech.
Another problem is there is social and language barrier. We are more literal. So if somebody tells us “let’s get together for lunch soon” we take it seriously and then we are puzzled why the person never called. The biggest social barrier I see in our tendency to be frank and honest. If my girlfriend asks me about her new hairstyle which is horrible, I will tell her so because I don’t want her to be walking around looking like an idiot. For us, that is a sign of good friendship. Americans generally don’t want to hear that, I am not supposed to make somebody uncomfortable. Thus the relationship stays shallow.
Zuzko a Evi, when I came here I was also an unbeliever so I remember how that felt. Although I did stay with an atheist host family so I felt ‘safe’ with them. And during those times (about 5 yrs or so) I found myself struggling with finding some good friends. I did not know any Czech people around and the first good friend that I found turned out to be a Christian. She really was different than any other people that I have met. I did not have a car back then so she would pick me up and drive me around, we had a lot of fun together. And believe me she did not try to force any kind of religion on me which was good…
I think most Americans do want to have that foreign friend so they can brag about us to their other friends ;). No seriously, I think they like it when we tell them about our ways and broaden their horizons. They have been brought up with that cultural diversity attitude so they welcome different people. Now that said, we have to teach them some of our honest, straight-up talks…. minus the Czech overly critical, negative way of speaking. There needs to be a balance, you can be honest about anything but one needs to say it in a gentle way – that’s the hardest part!
PS: Eurobubba sorry but I really think there are truly shallow people walking on this earth. I think they also call them simple people. Of course, there are these shallow-LOOKING people who just love to smile all the time and love to talk about the weather, meanwhile they have a couple of skeletons hidden in their closet which they are unwilling to confront. BUT they coexist with the deep people and those truly shallow people.
I used to think so, but I’ve had some unusual opportunities to get to know some people I, honestly, didn’t expect much from (arrogant as that sounds), and was surprised and moved to learn how much there was to them. I guess there’s no way to know for sure without getting acquainted with every human being on the planet…. But I have to strongly disagree that “simple” is the same as “shallow”! 🙂
Tanja, funny you say that Americans want to have foreign friends for bragging 🙂 My good American friends are actually entertained by me and my ways and I think sometimes they find me “exotic”.
Benedikta, I see what you are saying about not making anyone uncomfortable. But honestly, do you want your friends to criticize you straight up? I don’t! I want them to take me as I am and give me advice when I ask for it. To be gentle with my flaws. That’s why they are friends. The well meaning auntie who told me I was fat when I was a kid and that I look better without glasses, she could have kept her mouth shut!
And as far as “let’s get together for lunch sometime”, I think if you feel real connection, you will do that lunch. Key is to plan it right away. I noticed that even with my Czech friends, I have to set a date and time and then it happens, otherwise it gets forgotten in everyday grind. And it may not be anybody’s fault.
I don’t know what to say here girls. It seems like you moved a country to a new country…. I have fabulous American friends, I’ve always had good friends and I keep in touch with Czech friends. Friedship depends on people, not where they come from. It’s what you send out that you get back. It’s having things in comon, not basing your connection on mutual hate or complaints. I think those who souround themselves with Czech’s only should try a little harder and a bit more sincerely. American policies may not be the greatest, but Americans are good people, for the most part, anyway. I spent half my so-far life there and half here, it’s a bit more here than there, but this is how I feel. That’s all. It saddens me to hear where a person comes from has anything to do with friendship. I’m actually writing an article for a magazine on friendships so when it’s done and out I’ll post about it.
Evi, totally, I had a couple of ‘nice’ aunts like that . THey scar you for life!
Mariko, I am looking forward to that article! And I agree with you, Americans are pretty great overall.
Marika, I think it’s natural to have more in common with people from the same country, same background, who watched same Vecernicek and ate the same rohliky. Therefore easier connection and understanding. But I agree that friendship as everything else depends on people the most.
First of all, I’d like to say, I still have hope to find a great American female friend. I believe there are somewhere out there. However, my experience with them is unfortunately not that great. I can’t say they are bad people, in general Americans are actually much nicer than Europeans (at the first sight at least) but the experience we are used to from our country cannot be in any way compared to this culture. It can’t be. We were raised differently, our values are set on a different level. Like I was told, even American women today here have problems to socialize because they don’t know how. They were taught to be independent and successful and it doesn’t go together with hanging at cafes after work.. So what I am saying is, yes, it’s probably possible to have a good friend here but I would really doubt it would be on the same level like it would be with your friend in your own country.
Like Tanja found for herself to meet good people through church, me on the other hand like Americans who traveled the world and are more open minded.. Unfortunately not many of those. But I don’t give up and am still looking..
I think Lenka made a great point about American women being lead to be super independent and super successful which does not go along with sitting around and socializing on a deeper level. Because if you do that you are automatically letting the other person know that you NEED help, that you NEED a suggestion about a certain issue…. which does not go along with Miss Independent ;). It is a great generalization but there is something to it.
I think Lenka made a great point about American women being lead to be super independent and super successful which does not go along with sitting around and socializing on a deeper level. Because if you do that you are automatically letting the other person know that you NEED help, that you NEED a suggestion about a certain issue…. which does not go along with Miss Independent ;). It is a great generalization but there is definitely something to it.
I’m getting a kick out of all these stereotypes of American women!
I’m American and find this very interesting because I feel the same way about Czech women. I have many Czech female friends and I just can’t get as close to them as my American friends. And it’s not about time spent with them or how long I’ve known them. Some Czech girlfriends I’ve kn0wn longer or spend more time with some of my American girlfriends, but we just don’t seem to find that deep connection. I even found myself feeling uneasy when my Czech girlfriend was going through marital problems and turned to me to talk to me about it. Our conversations had always been so superficial that I found myself uncomfortable talking about deeper issues with her. I’m a social worker and talk deep issues with many people and was so shocked at myself for my uncomfortable-ness (not really a word btw). I wouldn’t have felt that way with an American friend that I’ve known even less time. Even before this article, I’ve tried to wrap my head around why my friendships with my Czech girlfriends are more superficial than my American friendships. I never realized that Czech women may be feeling the same way. I suppose the only conclusion is that it’s just the cultural differences. We don’t come from the same type of upbringing and that unconsciously stands between us both. :-/
Karen, you made me snicker. I would apologize, but I think we managed to stereotype Czech women on this page quite nicely as well. Stereotyping is a way to deal with the complex world in 21st century:-)
Katka, that’s vaguely comforting and depressing at the same time. Do you have any suggestions on how to build bridges? You might be right that we learn how to socialize at a level of kindergarten and it’s hard to suddenly learn to read a different set of cues, but still!
Katko – how interesting! I think there are 3 possible explanations to this issue:
a/ cultural differences
b/ language barrier
c/ you have not found that one Czech women that you would click with
But ladies, I am a living proof that it is possible to find a good American friend (and also vice-verse) so don’t give up!!!
Hello girls,
I live in the US from 2001 and I do not have one single good American friend. Yes, they are nice and smile at you but that’s it. They always say: We have to hang out sometimes and that’s it. They always offer some help or advice in the future and never keep promise. So I learned that it is good to have Czech friends and consider Americans only as acquaintances.
Radka
I’m an American — actually, a Californian — living in central Europe… I think we tend be more open about superficial things than European women, but at the same time more reticent to share deeper things. I can’t really talk about meeting Czech friends, since my contact with Czechs is all in my husband’s family, but I’ve definitely found German women to be puzzling distant and yet somehow more open about “serious” matters than matches the distance they hold on superficial matters. I suspect the path to American friendships is just a bit different…
I’m an agnostic, but I think the suggestion about Church actually makes sense. I’d just augment it to include any activity that lends itself toward discussions about reality, the way the world works, etc. The most interesting friends I’ve met here have been through language classes, where you tend to spend at least a couple of months with the same people, and you have to talk about pretty much everything without worrying too much about how comfortable you are with the people (otherwise, you just make it more difficult to properly learn the language). I suspect — or at least hope! — that a church group would be likely to include similar types of commitment and honesty.
I find it more relaxing to be around American women than any other kind…
What a wonderful blog! I was raised by a 100% Czech mother, who was 3 when she arrived here. As a working 40-year-old (Brand Director for PURELL(R) Hand Sanitizer products) I agree that Czech women tend to be deeper and less superficial than most Americans and church is such a good place to make friends. I also believe that, while more formal than many of our world counterparts, those with a Czech identity of any kind also make ourselves more vulnerable when we really get to know one another. A Czech friend is a friend for life!
I’ve had the pleasure of traveling through the Czech Republic, visiting my family’s homestead in Malenovice, (outside of Zlin) and of course, Praha. I felt entirely at home there, and yet, I felt terrible that the “elephant in the room,” or the topic we couldn’t discuss, was life under communist rule. Americans often discuss all topics and since most of us know little about life outside of democracy, this was very eye-opening to me when I traveled there in my early 20s.
Looking forward to reading more great posts and following the great work of this blog. Feel free to bounce back here or comment directly at @hookerk on Twitter.
Kathleen
I have been living in the US since 2007, mostly Alaska and New Mexico and have to say that I have many good American female friends.
Aha, that’s a proof that it’s possible, so ladies, keep trying!
:))) Radka, you better not be the Radka from Boston who barely keeps in touch! Then I could not believe a word you wrote here.
No, i am not from Boston. We live in DC area. I would like to suggest to write in Czech as we are Czech girls here so we can enjoy our beautiful language full of idioms.:)
Chtela bych vam doporucit clanek v Respektu, ktery prave vysel. Napsala ho Helena štorchová a ma nazev Bod obratu. Velmi vystizne popisuje, proc se cesti “emigranti” nevraceji zpatky do Cech natrvalo zit, a pokud to zkusi, proc tam nezustanou. Mam totiz uplne stejnou zkusennost.
Radko, mohla by jsi poskytnout link na ten clanek? Pokud si dobre vzpominam, na Respekt je treba mit predplatne, ne?
Moc rada bych si ho precetla…
Diky.
Jitko, ja ho mam stazeny v ipadu, link mi to tedy neukazuje a nejde mi to zkopirovat,vze bych ti to alespon pastenula do komentare. Az prijde Sam z prace, urcite to nejak udela a ja ti to preposlu. Jsem technicky antitalent:)
Jinak tenhle Respekt stoji za precteni cely, je tam vyborny clanek o knize Tomase Sedlacka Ekonomie s lidskou tvari, ktera se stala bestsellerem i v anglictine a nemcine. A pak je tam zajimavy pohled na Mitta Romneyho Talentovany pan Romney a taky na americkou Government Accountability Project(GAP). Normalne si stahuju do ipadu Tyden a pak stridave Respekt a Ekonom, podle toho, ktery z nich ma ten ktery tyden lepsi obsah. Cena je pro vsechny stejna $1.99.
Radko, moc diky. Tu knihu mam doma v anglictine, ale jeste jsem se k ni nedostala…