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How Scott found his Czech ancestors / Jak nasel Scott sve ceske predky

Little Scott with his Czech grandmother

And it is guest-post time again! This time the author’s name is Scott who grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. After several years of tedious searching Scott came to learn that his ancestors were some of the very early Bohemian immigrants to settle in Cleveland. While  in 1910 Cleveland had a Czech community  of about 75,000, when his ancestors came to this city they were among the first 19 Czech families there.

Now living in the Midwestern United States, Scott has written for the National Czech and Slovak Museum and Library in their journal Slovo and has been featured in the blog for the software company, myheritage.com.  He writes his own blog at http://onwardtoourpast.blogspot.com and has a Facebook page entitled Onward To Our Past.
CZ: Autorem dnesniho clanku je Scott, ktery vyrostl v Clevelandu, Ohio. Jeho dlouholetym konickem je patrani po svych predcich. Po nekolikaletem vyzkumu se dozvedel, ze jeho pra-pra-prarodice byli jednou z prvnich 19ti rodin, ktere se v Clevelandu usadily!
O sve zkusenosti se podelil psanim clanku do casopisu Slovo, do National Czech and Slovak Museum a dnes take do Czechmate Diary. To ovsem neni vsechno – ma take svuj vlastni blog, ktery se jmenuje “Onward to our past”.

How I Got to Milevsko

I began my genealogy ‘travels’ when my son and his wife informed us that they were pregnant with our second grandchild and if it was a boy they were going to name the baby after my father, William.

Soon I ‘needed’ to know more than the history of my dad’s name.  I accessed every site I could — Ancestry.com, Footnote.com, Myheritage.com, LDS, message boards at Delphi and Roots.com, etc. In my earliest readings I noted every ‘How To’ genealogy article started with the admonition to speak with elder family members for their firsthand information.  Thinking I knew better and that the Internet was a powerful tool, I ignored that advice.  It was not long before I became so muddled and confused by names, surnames, place names, and dates that I was on the phone to every senior member of our family.

When I told my 90-year-old mother about my efforts she immediately asked me to find out about her grandfather, Joseph K. Vicha.  Other than his name, that he was Czech, and his wife’s name (Anna Knechtl), all we had was a handwritten note of unknown origin that said simply ‘Joseph Vicha Pisec’.  I always loved my Czech heritage, so I gladly dug in.

My first step (naturally) was a Google search and one of my first hits was the Czechoslovak Genealogical Society International (CGSI) website.  I immediately sent in my membership and contacted them for some help.  The Library looked so impressive that I knew I had to get there.  My visit with President Ginger Simek at the Library helped me get going on my Knechtl family and moved me along in my quest for my Vicha family.  This visit was invaluable as it gave me a firsthand look at what resources were available at CGSI and beyond for my Czech work.

I found significant information on my Knechtl family, but found nothing on Vicha.  For months I struggled with only brick walls.

Next I went to the City Directories for Cleveland.  I charted every Vicha.  I cataloged names, addresses, dates, and jobs along with Census information.  Then I contacted every cemetery and funeral home that held a Vicha relative.  I called or wrote and meshed these records into my inventory.  I found some enticing tidbits, such as two Vicha individuals who passed away in the homes of Knechtl relatives, but nothing that came close to being able to be called proof.  Plus only the 1900 US Census lists my Joseph K. with his wife and children.

While I know this may not be the sanest approach, next I used a list of every Vicha, Víchová, etc. currently in the Czech Republic and sent them each a letter in Czech asking them to let me know if they knew of my Vicha family.  I sent this to over 200 Vicha households.  Heartwarmingly I received 27 responses.  Some were email some via the postal service.  Alas they all resulted in nothing that provided any information on Joseph K.

I used the CGSI website again for a professional researcher to help me at this point.  I used Olga Koliskova who did a marvelous job!  She had great success with my Knechtl family, but then again I had the benefit of copies of the birth documents and passport of my great great grandfather, Vaclav Knechtl, and great great grandmother Marie Moucha Knechtl.  I provided Olga with all I knew about the Vicha family, but she came up empty.  I ran her ragged – checking every Pisek village.  Other villages were tried on very weak theories I devised – all with the same result.  Only later did I add to my horror by learning there is a whole district named Pisek.

Scott now with his 2 grandsons

I had several wonderful fellow genealogists helping me out with anything Vicha all along the way.  No relation or prior acquaintance, just a willingness to help.  Obituaries, newspaper notations, deeds, etc. came to my inbox.  I am deeply thankful to each of them for their help, but especially Barbora, John, and Ruth.  About this time my cousin sent me a newspaper clipping from 1899 that mentioned Joseph K. Vicha.  This was a valuable piece of information as it confirmed the positions I had in my inventory.  This pushed me to research the larger Czech community in Cleveland and I attended the biannual CGSI conference in Cleveland, which significantly improved my network and background.

I then attacked Cleveland Czech history with a vengeance.  I got a copy of Capek’s Czechs (Bohemians) In America, Habenicht’s History of Czechs in America (which contains a reference to my Knechtl relatives being some of the earliest Czech settlers in Cleveland in 1852), and The Encyclopedia of Cleveland History.  As I studied these, I also undertook deeper internet searching.  I used GoogleBooks for out-of-print and out-of-copyright books and Questia.com, a scholastic reference site, which contained an article by Professor Michael Kukral.  I read Professor Kukral’s article, found him via the internet, and we began to share information.  In my research I also found a reference to Dr. Gregory M. Stone, who wrote his PhD dissertation on Cleveland Czechs, titled Ethnicity, Class, and Politics Among Czechs in Cleveland, 1870-1940 published in 1993. Unfortunately, I could not locate Dr. Stone.  I discovered he wrote an article for the CGSI publication, Rocenka, which I ordered.  In the footnote at the end of this article I found Dr. Stone’s biography.  I sent each institution an inquiry requesting contact information for Dr. Stone.  Dr. Kukral then informed me he had found his copy of Dr. Stone’s dissertation and would sell it to me – a deal I sealed immediately!

A few weeks later one of the institutions responded to my inquiry about Dr. Stone. They offered to forward my request to Dr. Stone stating my desire to communicate and my contact information.  No promises, just the offer to act as intermediary.  I knew I couldn’t ask for more than that.

The ensuing time dragged.  I was like a child waiting each day for the postman for my copy of the dissertation and perhaps a note from Dr. Stone.

Finally, the dissertation came.  304 pages of pure Cleveland Czech PLATINIUM!  I devoured Dr. Stone’s material.  It is great stuff if you haven’t read it.  It is exceptional original research and material on the Czech community in Cleveland.

Shortly thereafter an email message from Dr. Stone arrived!  He became my greatest asset in my efforts – and has re-energized my desire to learn more about the influence and impact of the Czech community on Cleveland.  Dr. Stone provided excellent insights into research in Cleveland, what’s available, what he used, where things are, where there are gaps in data, etc.

As I worked new avenues I learned from Dr. Stone I undertook a complete review of the data I had collected including requested marriage licenses from the Cuyahoga County Probate Court, death certificates from the Cuyahoga County Archives, obituaries from the Cleveland Necrology File of the Cleveland Public Library, real estate deeds from the Cuyahoga County Recorder site, and the Western Reserve Historical Society.

My first huge Vicha-specific break came courtesy of some unknown volunteer in the Cuyahoga County Archive (Cleveland) who went above and beyond.  I had discovered a death listing for a woman early on who I believed might be Joseph’s mother.  I had forgotten that I had requested this death record when a fat envelope arrived from the Archive.  I am sure you know the excitement of getting an envelope that is too thick for the usual one page of information.  I received not only the listing for the death of Karolina Pokorny Vicha, but copies of Probate Court documentation for her estate and the sale of the family home.  The Application for Letters of Administration included all her heirs-at-law – and there was not only her husband, but all her children, including Joseph Vicha!  Finally proof of the family!  Not only documented, but notarized.

I returned to my inventory, picked out the correct Vicha family members, and began building their families in my tree.  Three sons and two daughters.  Frantisek’s family dead-ended after two marriages and one generation of children.  Antonin’s family ended much the same way.  Son number three is Joseph K. so I knew exactly what I had there.  Daughter Thamsin married into a family with a name that was so often mis-transcribed in the census that it was near impossible for me to follow so I went to daughter Mary.  Luckily I found that she married a Ptak – another uncommon name in Cleveland.

The Census listed the Vicha children as having been born in ‘Bohemia’.  As I traced the first four children I discovered that each was married in Cuyahoga County.  However it appeared to me that daughter, Mary, might have been married in Bohemia or at least not in Cuyahoga County like the rest.  So back to the sites of Ellis Island, CSGI, Castlegarden, Ancestry, LDS, and Leo Baca’s books looking for any village name.  I had no idea about Mary’s groom other than his name being Frank Ptak.  I began searching all the Ptak individuals I could find.  Lo and behold, I found a Franz and Marie Ptak coming over to the States, with children about the correct ages; however the initials of the children did not fit.  On closer review, I saw that this was yet another transcription error and the correct initials did fit the names I had, but no village listing.  I began to trace all the Ptak names who said they were destined to settle in Cleveland.  I built an inventory of all the Cleveland Ptak individuals as I did with Vicha.  I found several who were age-appropriate for siblings, aunts, uncles, or parents to Frank.  There, buried in the passenger lists, were the names of two villages in Bohemia from different Ptak families – the first time I had ever come across any village names for anyone with even a remote possibility of being related to my Vicha family.  There finally, in black and white, were names other than simply Bohemia, Czech, etc: Shota Pech and Rukofce.  If I wasn’t in heaven, I sure thought I could see it from where I was at that moment!  Mapy.cz was my next destination – and to my great dismay I read the messages that neither were place names in the Czech Republic.

As fast as I could, I shared the names with Dr. Stone.  He responded not only with corrected names, but information that according to his mapping of where early Cleveland Czechs came from, these were worth investigating.  He said he even recalled seeing these village names in his notes and interviews.  So investigate I did – or rather a researcher by the name of Martin Pytr in the Czech Republic did.  While Pechova Lhota came up empty, lo and behold while checking Rukavec – there it was – the marriage of Frantisek Ptak and Marie Vicha in St. Bartholomew Church in Milevsko on February 3, 1869, very near the year listed in the Census data.  In my excitement I contacted Olga and let her know that my Vicha family had been found.  She took it upon herself to call Martin on the telephone to verify that; yes indeed he had found the proper family.  Martin has now verified the marriage of Josef Vicha and Karolina Pokorny (Joseph K’s parents), the births of Frantisek, Marie, Antonin, Thamsin, and Josef K, and much more.

 

While the entire picture of Joseph K. Vicha is not yet known …. he still disappears in 1907 without a trace … I can see the smile on my mother’s face!

I got a couple of questions for you, Scott (by Tanja):

1/ How long did your search take?

About two years.
2/ What do you remember about your Czech grandmother?  Did she speak to you in Czech? Did she pass on any Czech traditions to you?

I have wonderful memories of my Czech grandmother. She spoke Czech all the time — usually ‘under her breath’, always with the other Czech relatives, and whenever she was exacerbated by me! I begged her to teach me, but she said ‘only when I would get 100% on all my English spelling tests’. Needless to say she never taught me Czech :-)

3/ Are you planning on visiting Milevsko (Pisek?)? And if yes, are you going to continue with your search in the ancestry of Vicha family?

She always had a million Czech sayings, traditions (especially at Easter), taught us how to cook knedliky!

If you liked this post buy me a coffee! (Suggested:$3 a latte $8 for a pound) Thanks!

26 comments… add one
  • Tom Blaha May 20, 2011, 6:29 am

    What a great article by a fellow Clevelander. I was born in Cleveland in 1947, and I believe my great-grandparents (Blaha, Cipra, Kliment) came to Cleveland in the 1860’s. I am hoping to do the same type of research that Scott did (when I find the time). In the meantime, I would like to read Dr Stone’s dissertation just for the enjoyment of it–is it accessible by internet, o for purchase on paper?

  • Tanja May 20, 2011, 7:29 am

    That’s a good question, Tom! I will ask Scott for you just in case he does not read this comment.

  • Scott May 20, 2011, 8:35 am

    Tom,

    Unfortunately, that dissertation is not online, nor has it been published. I will see if I can get an extra copy someplace.

    I have seen the Blaha name often and have a Cipra in my tree as well!

    Connect with me via my blog or facebook (Onward To Our Past there too) and I can see what I have already found on those names.

    Scott

  • Eva May 20, 2011, 8:55 am

    This article was really special for those of us just starting out on the research of our ancestors.
    Thank you.

  • Tanja May 20, 2011, 1:33 pm

    I am glad the article fulfilled its purpose – that’s exactly what I asked of Scott to write about – to give as many tips on how he went about his search in order to help you guys who are in the same boat. Bravo! And Scott did an A++ work :))
    I bet if you have any questions, leave them here in the comment area and he will be glad to answer you.

  • Nikola May 20, 2011, 3:03 pm

    Very interesting! I started searching for my and my husband’s ancestors by collecting family documents and records on my Czech side and by searching Ancestry.com for my husband’s American side and I found a very interesting fact – my husband, whose great great grandparents came to the US from Poland and Ireland, also has some Czech ancestors!! We might all be related after all … It seems to me that once you find the people who came over to the US, you hit a dead end. It seems much harder to search the Czech archives.

  • Scott Phillips May 20, 2011, 4:00 pm

    Nikola,

    The good news is more and more of the Czech records are going digital.

    I get an update every week from ceskearchivy.cz on all the new records that have been turned into digital records as well.

    It is not all, but a lot more than before!

    But you are right ….. just this past week I needed to find a researcher who could go to the Archive in Prague to look up a marriage license as that was the only location that had it. Found it though, and it was money well spent ….. I found a whole branch of my Knechtl family that emigrated from Bohemia and ended up in Iowa and North Dakota in the States.

    Cheers and good searching!

    Scott

  • Tanja May 24, 2011, 8:47 pm

    Nikolo, I had a feeling that we all came out of Praotec Cech 🙂

  • MariKa May 25, 2011, 12:49 am

    Very lovely article, love it, but Tanko I’m not sending you anymore since you’ve shunned my dear Lenka and her band one ;))) Stavkuju.

  • Vlastimil May 25, 2011, 11:51 am

    It was an interesting article, I don’t know too much about my ancestors. My son and daughter are very interested in learning who their ancestors were , but the problem is, we don’t know where to start. Very funny thing is that my son’s ancestors’ relatives fought against each other during WWII. I found it quite entertaining 🙂 I don’t know where to start looking for ancestors, they are somewhere in Germany , maybe Poland, maybe in Hungary, Russia, Mongolia, Italy who knows ? I like raw meat, so I must have some ties to Genghis Khan ….

  • Scott Phillips May 25, 2011, 3:28 pm

    Vlastimil, Perhaps we are related! Two nights ago my 2 year old grandson, when asked what he liked about our evening meal, yelled out “MEAT”! “MEAT!” “MEAT!”

    Scott

  • Tanja May 25, 2011, 8:53 pm

    MariKo, I am not following…who is Lenka?

  • kathy davis August 5, 2011, 7:37 am

    looking for info on czech maxa and lukes lucas or luks family in cleveland ohio— i’m at a dead end for what happened to josephine lukes maxa her husband was wenzel maxa– both appeared to have died turn of the century. any info would help.. thanks, kathy

  • Scott Phillips August 5, 2011, 9:18 am

    Kathy, Email me at OnwardToOurPast at Gmail dot com.

    I have Lukes in my family from Cleveland. Just found the connection recently, so not a lot, but some!

    Scott

  • Scott Anderson August 27, 2011, 8:42 am

    I am a Clevelander, now living in Sarasota, Florida. My mother’s side of the family is Czech. She still lives in Cleveland. Their names include, Hruby, Warak (Varak), Vlasak, Kucera, Zavesky, and Veverka, amoung others. They came to Cleveland in the 1860 timeframe. I would like to read Dr. Stone’s article. How can I get it?
    Josef Vlasak had a furniture store, Vlasak Furniture, at 55th and Broadway in the old Broadway Bank Buidling. I collect his furniture. The Vlasak Family was from Bykos. The Hruby’s and Kucera’s were from Krenice. The Warak’s (Varak) came from Moravia, near Brno.

  • Scott Phillips August 28, 2011, 5:32 am

    Scott, This dissertation was done before computers and is not in digital form. I have a copy, but only was only able to get one copy.

  • Eva August 28, 2011, 7:31 am

    Scott, Where can people get a copy of the dissertation now? Can they be printed up by you and sold?
    Then where can a person start with the research that are on a limited budget. I took care of both parents two decades and never learned much about my background only some before the dementia took it’s toll on both. They were working 16 hour days when I grew up. Three grandparents died early in life back in Czech.
    I found out late in life that I had a relative come to Cleveland in the 1860 ties. My father said before he was an orphan an uncle from Cleveland came and was so nice to him? The mystery is fun to try to unravel at this stage of life.

  • Scott Phillips August 28, 2011, 8:09 am

    Eva,
    I can’t copy it, as I don’t own the copyright.

    If you email me at OnwardToOurPast@gmail.com and I can share ideas, sites, and I’ll throw in some free research time!

    Cleveland Czechs are my passion!

    Scott

  • Scott Phillips August 28, 2011, 8:46 am

    Tanja,

    I can post help here for folks on genealogy if they want, but I don’t want to do something you don’t want on your blog, so just let me know! I am happy to help folks, especially with Czech-US genealogy questions AND especially when it involves Cleveland and NE Ohio.

    Scott

  • Tanja August 28, 2011, 8:56 am

    Hi Scott, that’s fine Scott, you can post it here if you want. Thanks for asking though!

  • Scott Phillips August 28, 2011, 9:12 am

    If you are interested in genealogy and my take and help on it, you can always visit my blog at http://onwardtoourpast@blogspot.com and if you are on Facebook join us at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Onward-To-Our-Past-Genealogy-and-Family-History-Services/197343473642156

    Love to see you all there! Lots of Czech focus.

    Scott

  • Ruth/Cleveland ohio December 3, 2011, 5:18 am

    Scott, Enjoyed reading your website found in the Old Brooklyn News. I am trying to research my Bohemian grandparents, Frank and Anna Sklenar. My Grandfather was a grocery store (Denison Ave) merchant. And a baker and restaurant owner in N.Y. City. I do not speak the language, so I feel very limited. When I saw the article in the Dec 2011 OBN paper maybe there is hope for me! Ruth

  • Mike Kukral July 26, 2013, 11:48 am

    Hi Scott, many people want a copy of Stone’s disseratation that you bought from me. Copies of all dissertations in the USA could be purchased from: UMI Company, 300 North Zeeb Rd., Ann Arbor, MI 48103. This is a depository for all dissertations done in the USA. I haven’t used them in quite a while, but a search online should locate them now. Also, Stone’s dissertation could be ordered through most libraries with “inter-library loan.”
    I also strongly recommend the new translation to english of Vlchek’s book on his success in Cleveland industry (Kent State University Press). It cover 1870s-1920. He bcame a millionaire!
    Good luck. Dr. Mike Kukral, Professor of Geography, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, Terre Haute, Indiana (but from Cleveland area Czechs!)

  • Hanna Unger August 29, 2013, 9:19 am

    Hey Scott,

    Great family research story! My great-grandmothers maiden name was Ptak. I wonder if there is any connections? I will have to take a look at the information you have provided to see if I can branch off. They also lived in Cleveland, Oh. Hopefully I will be as successful in my search as you have been. Great work!

    -Hanna Unger

  • Scott Phillips August 29, 2013, 1:59 pm

    Hanna,

    We should connect and see about the Ptak line! I have several dozen in my family tree all from Cleveland too.

    You can message me from my website at http://OnwardToOurPast.com or if you prefer Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/OnwardToOurPast.

    This could be fun!

    Scott

  • Dan Wagner September 28, 2013, 12:50 am

    My mother’s lineage is Czech and for the past few years I have been doing quite a bit of research on them. The family I have been researching is Sandera, but I have come across many other families in my pursuit and am willing to help anyone looking for ancestors who lived in the Cleveland area. I currently live in the Cleveland area so I have access to many local resources. Please feel free to contact me if you need assistance in your research. And likewide, if anyone knows anything about the Sandera family in Cleveland from the mid 1850’s and onward I would be very appreciative if you would share your info with me. Look forward to connecting with you.

    Dan

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